The main war between Iran and the West is not over missiles, it is over meaning

A member of the Islamic Science and Culture Research Institute, emphasizing that the confrontation between Iran and the West is beyond a military confrontation, said: the main field of war is the competition over meaning, defining progress and the authority of life patterns.

Hossein Emami, the ambassador of Arjan for the religion, religious and intellectual service; Understanding Iran's current situation at a level beyond the daily political relations requires attention to the concept of civilization and civilizational developments. In this view, the sustainability of a civilization is not only dependent on the possession of military power and material hardware, but the concepts, meanings, identity and ability of a society to maintain its "ontological security" are also important in this context. Habibullah Babaei, the head of the Institute of Civilization and Social Studies of the Research Institute of Islamic Sciences and Culture, the director of the Department of Civilization Studies of Bagheral Uloom University (AS) and the research assistant of the Sisters Seminary, in an interview with Mehr, has examined the relationship between independence, civilizational changes, dependent bourgeoisie, the war of meanings, resistance, and the formation of civilization-building human forces in contemporary Iran.

In order to enter into the discussion of civilization, we must first examine the structural barriers to growth in the surrounding countries. You mentioned the concept of "affiliated bourgeoisie". How does this class differ from the European bourgeoisie and how can it prevent true independence?

The early bourgeoisie in the 18th and 19th centuries of Europe was a productive, industrializing, innovative and capitalist force that played a role in the formation of the material civilization of the West. But the bourgeoisie found a different situation in the surrounding countries. Frantz Fanon explains this well in his book "Hells on Earth".

Instead of being a productive and innovative force, this bourgeoisie is more inclined towards brokerage, mediation and importation. From an intellectual point of view, it has been influenced by western models and a kind of cognitive alienation and colonization has been formed in it. On the other hand, he does not have a positive view of the masses of people and the oppressed and sees them as backward or an obstacle in the path of development. Finally, after the political changes, with the slogan of realism, he may play the role of local agent of neo-colonial interests.

This concept can be seen in different forms in the thought of some Iranian thinkers; For example, in Jalal Al-Ahmad's "Westernization" discussion, in Shariati's concept of "alienation" and in Fakhreddin Shadman's discussions about the cultural and intellectual state of Iranian society.

In what fields has this dependent flow been reproduced in contemporary Iran?

It can be examined in at least three areas. First, it is the field of economy; Where some technocrats and neophyte classes may seek their survival in commodity trading, importation and uncritical integration into the existing economic order instead of endogenous production.

The second field is cognitive warfare. Here, the development project may be seen as objectively equivalent to Westernization, the cost-cutting resistance may be presented as unnecessary, and compromise may be presented as diplomatic rationality.

In the field of politics, the view may be formed that the truth of the revolution is over and the country should be transformed from a resistance movement into a normal nation-state digested in the western order.

Have other societies in contemporary history been able to overcome the hegemony of such forces and create new human flows?

Yes! Every civilization leap requires the formation of new human streams; Streams that can act as the antithesis of dependent forces. China's experience in this field is significant. In the 1950s to 1970s, China tried to establish a link between loyalty to the ideals of independence and having scientific expertise. The concept of "red and expert" can be understood in this framework.

An example like Chian Shuesen shows how an expert can put his knowledge and expertise at the service of a large national project. He left the comforts and welfare of America and helped China's scientific and strategic projects in China's difficult situation.

In 19th century Germany, we are also facing another trend. A class of professors and researchers was formed who saw their main capital not in business, but in science and culture. They put the concept of "Kultur" or deep and spiritual German culture against a certain view of "Zivilisation" and this scientific and cultural trend was also effective in the formation of Germany's industrial power.

In the Soviet experience, after the Second World War, a group of scientific elites emerged from among the children of workers and peasants and were able to establish a link between science, ideology and the national project. An example like Yuri Gagarin can be considered in this framework.

You have emphasized that the point of collapse of civilizations is not necessarily in military means. What is the relationship between meaning, ontological security and civilizational power?

The collapse of civilizations does not necessarily begin with the collapse of structures or lack of weapons, but can begin with the collapse of the meanings and concepts of that civilization. The sustainability of civilizations depends on the sustainability of their concepts.

The authority of the modern West was more than just the result of rockets and hard power, it was the result of the authority of its concepts. The West was able to put forward concepts and models at the global level as criteria for progress, development and a good life. When the validity of these concepts is doubted and the West can no longer rely on them to create global authority for itself, one of the important points of civilizational transformation has been formed.

On the other hand, the capacity of Islamic civilization is not limited to having military power. Military and missile power are important, but the main strength can be in concepts such as dignity, meaningful life and moral values. Akbar p. In his book "Postmodernism and Islam", Ahmad has emphasized the capacity of the Islamic world to overcome materialism. This is the semantic area that should be considered.

Why can the conflict between Iran and the West be seen as a conflict over "brands" and conceptual models?

The issue is not only about oil resources or material power. The question is whether a society can create new brands and patterns in the world or whether it remains a consumer of others' patterns.

For example, in the past, the standards related to a worthy woman or the pattern of women's presence in the world arena were mainly defined based on Western standards. But when a veiled woman appears in a global arena and represents different values, it is not just a sporting or social event; Rather, it can mean the formation of a new semantic pattern.

This issue is related to the concept of "ontological security". Ontological security is different from physical security and is related to preserving the meaning, identity and continuity of a way of being. If a society can maintain its identity and meaning of life even in the conditions of war and pressure, it will have more capacity to rebuild and continue its path.

How do you evaluate the civilizational dimensions of the Islamic Revolution and why do the conventional studies of political science and international relations sometimes face problems in understanding these developments?

One of the reasons is that conventional academic studies examine civilizations mostly in terms of power blocs, geopolitical relations, and distribution of material power. While in order to understand a civilizational movement, its ontological, anthropological, philosophical and historical principles must also be taken into consideration.

The civilizational achievements of the Islamic Revolution can be analyzed in two dimensions, negative and positive. On the negative side, the Islamic revolution challenged some of the dominant assumptions and claims of Western civilization; including the myth of the separation of religion from politics and the complete separation of science from religion.

On the positive side, we can also mention the effort to achieve science and power at the level of civilization, the activation of groups that were rarely seen in social and historical equations before, and the formation of a culture of resistance on a global scale.

What do you mean by "global resistance" and on what foundations is this resistance based?

Global resistance can be understood on several bases. First, global common suffering; It means human suffering from losses and injustices and trying to achieve justice. Second, a common language and philosophy to protest oppression. The third is the variety of areas of resistance.

Resistance is not only military. It can be formed in scientific, cultural, economic, social and political fields. Therefore, if we want to talk about resistance on a global scale, we should consider it a multifaceted phenomenon.

In your analysis, you have also emphasized the sociology of fear and fearlessness. What does fear have to do with political and civilized behavior?

Fear can become a tool to maintain the status quo. In "Fear: The History of a Political Idea," Corey Robin shows how fear can become entrenched in power elites and prevent radical change by exaggerating the risks.

In colonized societies, fear can be a tool of passivity and subjugation. A part of westernized intellectual literature in Iran is also formed in a way that introduces fear and submission as rationality.

One of the important aspects of the Islamic revolution can be seen in the change of this balance of fear. In this approach, fear of the enemy should not lead to surrender, but can be turned into resistance and a kind of "existential courage". This courage can be the basis for scientific, social and even military leaps.

Finally, what are the characteristics of the new human flow and civilized activists in contemporary Iran and what distinguishes them from the dependent flow?

We can talk about a trend that has the capacity to transform Iran from a mere nation-state to a civilized state. This trend can be called "civilizing vanguards". One of their main characteristics is having critical western studies; Neither fascination with the West nor ignorant denial of it.

This current should be able to distinguish between the scientific west and the colonial west. It is possible to use the knowledge and scientific achievements of the West, but this use should not mean accepting all its cultural and civilizational foundations. Such a trend should study the West in a specialized and critical manner, starting from the foundations of faith and Quran.

The second feature is originality and productivity. The main problem facing the dependent bourgeoisie is to overcome alienation and reach production and creativity. A society that only consumes the knowledge, technology and cultural patterns of others cannot find an independent civilizational position. On the other hand, the civilization-building current must have production power in the field of science, technology, culture and security.

Examples of this spirit can be seen in scientists such as Shahid Fakhrizadeh, Dr. Tehranchi and the late Saeed Kazemi Ashtiani.

The third feature is the link between national identity and faith. There should not be a clear dichotomy between nationality and religion. One can belong to Iran and its historical identity at the same time and have a religious and faith horizon. Martyr Qassem Soleimani and Martyr Hassan Tehrani Moghadam can be considered as symbols of this connection.

The fourth characteristic is the popular origin and connection with the oppressed. If the civilization-building stream is separated from society and people, it cannot be effective on a historical and civilizational scale. On the other hand, the forces that maintain their connection with the society and consider themselves as servants of the people, have a greater capacity to create sustainable changes. In this context, the experience of Shahid Rajaei and Shahid Raisi can also be mentioned.